The Future of the Industry (a serious business post)

[tittychan]

I've only been involved in the porn industry for a short time, but already I've seen several large-scale issues that are making me question whether or not I even want to go on.

I don't believe internet porn will cease to exist. This is literally impossible - this is an anonymous, available medium that is able to display high resolution pictures. Pornography is inevitable, and it is impossible to stop.

I do, however, believe internet pornography may become a poor man's game, and I have a bad feeling that the industry as a whole is in for a rough next two years.

Concerns inclue:

1. Free stuff. Every paysite out there is shoveling out more and more free stuff in order to satiate and satisfy affiliates and consumers. You don't want to give away a ridiculous amount of free stuff? That's okay, somebody else will be there, ready and willing.

Any idiot can masturbate daily to free pornography and never spend a penny. An industry can't survive off of free merchandise. It's simple economics.

Oh, and don't even get me started on the tubes. That's the future of porn right there, and it's going to be a very poor porn industry when that future becomes present.

2. Affiliate pay. So you run a paysite and you get some customers. Great! Are they from affiliates? Shit! There goes half your profit. Never before have I seen an industry where pay services offer to part with half of their income just for somebody bird-dogging their customers. I run an affiliate site and I'm willing to say that's insanity. Nobody can make decent money for long off of this sort of system.

3. Market saturation. Internet porn has become competitive to the point where it's basically a retard fight. It feels like a popularity contest where everybody will slit your throat to get a few thousand visitors away from your site and into theirs. There is too much porn on the web, and the amount is still growing. The bubble will burst. That is simple economics.

I know hammer will argue me to death on this post, and I'll be the first one to admit that I haven't been in the industry that long, but this is what I see. It's madness, and I'm concerned that the only answer is to move out of the way of the fan before the shit hits it.

Anybody to tell me I'm crazy?

[Cozy Monica]

Move out of the way. We want your traffic.

I've been in this business since 2000, and I can tell you that there was free porn then and there still is now. Affiliate pay was also around then, and still is now, and it's always been quite a cut throat business.

The only thing I feel is of concern in this business is being able to stay on top of the wave of change. Content delivery, formats, size, bandwidth, software, platforms... and more... those are the things that change...

There is no such thing as saturation. For every rising webmaster that makes it, there are thousands that will drop out.

However, this business definitely isn't what it used to be. Imagine being the first person to make a porn magazine. Then imagine what it was like ten years later. And look at it today, could you make a porn magazine and make it? Probably not... but could you use another platform, the web, and make it?

[balls_deep]

Originally posted by tittychan
Anybody to tell me I'm crazy?

It sounds like you understand the way things are. The secret is to be the best out of everyone.

I don't know about anyone else, but my checks are going up, not down.

[porn punk]

I feel your pain. I can still remember how pissed off I was at the end of my first month doing this and still no Ferrari

[Hammer]

I've got little free sites floating around out there I put up ten years ago that still generate money. Every once in a while I get a check from a sponsor I haven't actively promoted in years and it turns out some old site of mine just started getting SE traffic for some reason. The sponsor's on those sites don't have any new fangled product, they're the same old sponsors I've promoted for years and people are still signing up.

Like Monica said, all of us that have been around for awhile listened to the same whining (sorry) from new webmasters back in the 90's when TGPs started popping up. We were all going to be run out of business and why will anyone pay for something when they can get it for free? Well, people are still paying and TGPs didn't put us out of business, they made us money. So, either convince yourself you're wasting your time or get on the ball. All I can tell you is that if you don't get on the ball, ten years from now you'll be kicking yourself in the ass and reading someone like me give this same speech to some newbie that is moaning about something that is going to put us all out of business.

P.S. Don't worry, I won't argue to death, you have to make your own decisions.

[artwilliams]

If you are a newbie then all you likely have is a site with some sponsors galleries on it. You have no links, no trades, no search engine ranking. All this takes time and you won't get rich fast.

Like any other over saturated market you have to differentiate yourself. If all you can do is put up a link list or a tgp then ask yourself why would someone go to you rather than say Link-O-Rama or The Hun? To bastardize a phrase, how are you "building a better mousetrap" or finding a need that hasn't already been satisfied?

Be patient, be different, be innovative and good things eventually come to you from your efforts in porn.

P.S. Here is a micro niche that I think is way under produced. F2M digital insertation (i.e. a woman sticking a finger up a guy's butt). Now I know there are strap on sites and such but those tend to be "sissy" sites. By that I mean there is a humiliation aspect. How about a pay site where the sex is straight but there is some F2M ass play? It is certainly something you don't see in the big adult sites (BangBros, ReailityKings, NaughtyAmerica, etc). I bet people would pay to see that. There have got to be dozens of other micro niche sites that could make good money if you use your imagination. You want to build the next BangBros. Well it can be done but not with a ton of venture captial. Think of what you can do that other people would value.

P.P.S. I am not making it big YET but I starting at about $5,000 a year and now I am up to about $10,000. Every week I see more conversions and more cheques. It will take me some time but I will get there!

[sojproductions]

You can compare this kind of scenario to many industries, i come from a corporate graphic design background, that's just as cut-throat and difficult to succeed in if you want to earn any real kind of money, I used to charge £10,000+ for a decent custom site, i'd be lucky to charge £2,000 now. I also have shares in a data networking business, 10 years ago a data point was £50 installed in a building now its £15 - whereever there is good money to be made it will always get flooded by more 'chancers' than 'grafters' - there will be tons of comparisons but these are the ones I know about.

One thing I do know is in 2 years in this business the next years turnover will be 3 times more than the best ever year I had in the corporate design world - and no we wern't crap, I have numerous awards to prove it!

This is a good game to be in, just dont expect anything without some serious time and effort with very little reward in the early days.

All just my opinion of course

[Hammer]

Good points sojproductions. The same thing happened to me in the mainstream design business and the same thing happens to anyone in any business eventually. Look at restaurants. Why would anyone start a restaurant these days? Do we really need any new ones? And yet, new ones start all the time and succeed.

[Rikk Tikk]

From one newbie to another....

1. You are a newbie. You know nothing about the adult Internet. That makes you a newbie.

2. The only way to succeed in this business is through trial, error, study, criticism and hard work.

3. Even if you follow option 2, you still might not make it.

[mynameisjim]

I think the impetus for starting threads like this is the notion that adult is easy money. So when it turns out it's not easy money, people assume the industry is going under.

Bottom line, if there is money to be made, the business is cut throat no matter what is for sale. Actually, of all the industries I've been involved with, other adult webmasters have been my favorite to deal with for the most part. Mainstream business is full of ass holes who fuck you over while they're staring you in the face.

Is the industry changing? Yes. Is it changing quickly? Yes. Just from the time I got into it a little over a year ago, many of the things I did at the start that worked no longer do. In my mainstream efforts, some things I made good money with a few years ago no longer make a penny. But I've replaced them with other ventures. If you don't like rolling with very fast changes and getting kicked in the balls now and then, then this business is probably not for you.

Making money on your own is VERY hard in any business and it always looks like an uphill struggle. That's why so few do it.

I'd almost say it's getting harder to start an on-line business than a brick and mortar business.

[grimfang]

These are the same disscussions that have been taking place for years. One man's problem is another man's solution, in many cases.

Affiliate programs are not the problem. The problem is junior-webmaster abuse of affiliate programs and dependency on them. Affiliate programs are a tool that allows the little guys to play in the same ballpark with the bigboys... not the same game, just the same ballpark.
The affiliate program concept is a win-win situation: the big companys have people to make their sales for them, the small webmasters can generate income without the expense of buying or producing expensive content, and the surfers are flooded with online porn. Unfortunately, there are too many webmasters who use only affiliate content and materials, and there is not enough original content being produced these days. Webmasters throw together a bunch of cookie-cutter template websites, and they stop using thier brains.. innovation suffers, creativity dissapears, surfers get bored, and the industry stagnates.
We really can't blame the affiliate programs for this. They are doing the smart thing. They are increasing their exposure while decreasing thier own personal workload. Most of their stuff might be total crap these days, but the webmasters continue to tolerate it for some reason.

Free porn is a big headache, but it will never go away. We all managed to survive in this business with the existence of free porn.
The 'tube sites' are pretty much content pirates. The vast majority of them are comprised of stolen content being used illegally without permission. There are a few 'legitimate' ones out there that are owned by a single company and they use only their own material... but most of that material is their poor quality and really old crap that nobody wants to watch in the first place. Eventually the tube sites will have thier asses handed to them in court for either copyright violations or 2257 violations.

I would rant a bit more, but I have to go out and take care of some personal business right now. Hopefully I will get back online later tonight and finish my thoughts.

[Hammer]

I've never been able to understand why people assume that the adult business is going to be different than any other. Any business you can think of can be said to be saturated. And I can't think of any business that is easy to start with no experience and little or no money.

[playful1]

Originally posted by mynameisjim
I think the impetus for starting threads like this is the notion that adult is easy money. So when it turns out it's not easy money, people assume the industry is going under.

Bottom line, if there is money to be made, the business is cut throat no matter what is for sale. Actually, of all the industries I've been involved with, other adult webmasters have been my favorite to deal with for the most part. Mainstream business is full of ass holes who fuck you over while they're staring you in the face.

Is the industry changing? Yes. Is it changing quickly? Yes. Just from the time I got into it a little over a year ago, many of the things I did at the start that worked no longer do. In my mainstream efforts, some things I made good money with a few years ago no longer make a penny. But I've replaced them with other ventures. If you don't like rolling with very fast changes and getting kicked in the balls now and then, then this business is probably not for you.

Making money on your own is VERY hard in any business and it always looks like an uphill struggle. That's why so few do it.

I'd almost say it's getting harder to start an on-line business than a brick and mortar business.

Why would anyone consider Adult Web mastering different than any Business when it comes to the basics? All the same fundamentals are involved. It requires Hard work a massive investment in time, and there is a very sharp learning curve not to mention a better chance of failure.

The difference is that any Smuck can get $10 domains and $10 a month hosting, and bang! their in business. Try to get a coffee shop off the ground for under $100 (thanks Starbucks)

I think my signature says volumes about my experiences

[housekeeper]

The topic of this thread could have easily been 'Oh woe is me!', and I mean no disrespect to the poster, but certainly I think anyone entering any business needs to look at whatever down side he or she sees and take that into consideration with regard to your own personal involvement.

I started my professional life over 35 years ago, during the early and lean years all I ever heard from others was, 'this is a hard business, you'll have to do this in order to make it, you should consider doing this instead', blah..blah..blah..

Bottom line is nothing worth getting is gotten overnight, and if it is, it is gone just as quick. More often than not it takes many years to become skilled, life is competative period. When Tower records closed here in New York, it certainly signaled a change in the industry with regard to record sales. Of course everyone now can download songs/albums for free or at a minimal cost with, until recently, no reimbursement to the artists or creators of the music. Does that mean that there will be no more new music being made or young people will not want to enter into the music business? Of course not, but adjustments will have to be made in the industry.

Originally posted by grimfang

Unfortunately, there are too many webmasters who use only affiliate content and materials, and there is not enough original content being produced these days. Webmasters throw together a bunch of cookie-cutter template websites, and they stop using thier brains.. innovation suffers, creativity dissapears, surfers get bored, and the industry stagnates.
We really can't blame the affiliate programs for this. They are doing the smart thing. They are increasing their exposure while decreasing thier own personal workload. Most of their stuff might be total crap these days, but the webmasters continue to tolerate it for some reason.

Good point grimfang

Personally, I don't think you have to necessarily build a better mousetrap, or re-invent the wheel. I also don't think in this industry that simply selling what is the most popular niche or medium is what is best either. Go with what you know, know who your members are and what their interests are. Even within' your niche still not everyone will like the exact same thing, but having a professional and appealing product is first and foremost what is important. In any industry, making a customer feel welcome, at ease, and desirous of your product is what will sell it. Consumers need to be stimulated, period...

[jackbdirty]

Ok... as far as tittychang was saying. Yeah, the free stuff like the tube sites and stuff is bullshit....

But I have to differ with your opinion about the affiliates and affiliate programs. Look, I am running one right now..and I don't mind paying a man to work to make money in the biz. That is what it's all about.

Also, if you run an effective affiliate program, you will make money in the long run. Are you going to tell me that guys like BangBros are hurting... yeah, they are hurting by about 4 million clicks a day.

Let's say that they only convert 1:1000 .... I wouldn't say that's too hateful. Just my opinion, but I could be wrong.

[Cozy Monica]

Affiliate programs are based on a very old tried and true method of selling. Paying salesmen a commission on every sale they make selling your product.

[porn punk]

Then came the second month. Still no Ferrari!

[Hammer]

Just think how saturated we'd be if fewer people got discouraged and quit.

[Hyballs]

You read my mind Hammer!

Hey tittychan, and other newbies here's the truth straight from my crystal ball.

When I looked at online porn 18 months ago and thought about would I or wouldn't I join in, I came to 3 conclusions.

1/ By 2112 the porn industry will be buried under a sea of government bullshit.
or
2/ It will survive into the future but in a different form and greatly changed from what it is today. Meaning the top 10% will survive but the little fish will be a memory!
or
/3 It will implode because of the absurd quantity of free material. (I've said this before!) What other industry gives away it's product so freely? If I go to the baker's shop I can sample a dozen different breads but I don't get the whole loaf! When I go to the car dealer I can test drive a car around the suburb but they wouldn't be to receptive to me asking to borrow it for a while! You get the picture, right? It's madness to do what we do!

But I am here and you or anyone else is gunna need a crowbar to get me outa here! So yer, I am here, right to the end brother, right to the damned end!

How about you?

[tittychan]

Well then I guess my concerns about giving everything away and freesites throwing half their profits to affiliates was silly.

If the system works, well then I see no reason not to carry on. Just have to say, this is the weirdest goddamn business I've ever been in.

Onward