Help me understand...

[TwinDevils]

How is this site running such a large operation in the U.S., with the following legal disclaimer?:

"© YoungPornMovies.com 2004, All Rights Reserved.
We have no association and hold no responsibility for the links on this site!
No part of this website can be copied without our permission!"

http://youngpornmovies.com/

If the feds were going to bust down any door, wouldn't it be these guys?

[Titmowse]

Well, it is a TGP. The pics/galleries are submitted by other webmasters. The TGP operator makes sure that each accepted gallery has a 2257 disclaimer.

[TwinDevils]

Originally posted by Titmowse
Well, it is a TGP. The pics/galleries are submitted by other webmasters. The TGP operator makes sure that each accepted gallery has a 2257 disclaimer.

Yes, but I thought that even the thumbnails couldn't be explicit without a legit 2257 statement.

[TwinDevils]

Even on CozyAcademy, which I assume you're associated with, says in the legal primer:

If you display even one dirty picture of human beings on the Internet, you had better have proof that those humans were of legal age to pose for adult and to sign contracts. 2257 is US law so that age is 18.

[Cozy Monica]

I haven't checked the whois on the URL, so I'm not sure, but is it possible they are located in a different country?

And, just because something is the law doesn't mean people are going to follow it.

You can bet that a large percentage of the porn sites out there are not compliant with the title 18 2257 requirements.

[horney]

Not all of us here are US citizens. I get more surfers from the USA than anywhere else and I also strongly support measures taken to protect children, so I have a title 18 2257 statement on my sites.

I feel no obligation to ensure it conforms to US laws. It is there purely for reassurance and to point anyone interested in the direction of further information.

Any surfers, parents or authorities wanting proof can go and check for themselves. I wonder how many of the sites' visitors or list owners actually do check? How many actually read my statement?

So many less scrupulous traders could very easily add a link to a bogus statement to the bottom of their sites and few would be aware that it is bogus.

I have looked at several sponsors offering teens sites and walked away because of not being convinced in my own mind those kids had reached their eighteenth birthdays. Or sixteenth for that matter. Report them to whom? Which jurisdiction are the perpetrators resident in? Certainly not here in the UK without a lot of impenetrable screening in front. I'd be at the front of the lynch mob if they were so easy to find and still free.

Consider also how easy it is to set up spoof credentials, like someone in Europe or Asia with an address and telephone number in Miami or Boston, someone from South America to set up an office in London or Liverpool.

I am not going to chase half way around the world to check whether documents exist. The web is what it is and I believe that, to maintain its freedom, we all need to act responsibly. i.e. sensibly. We can't police every movement and I don't wish to live in a police state.

[TwinDevils]

Originally posted by Cozy Monica
I haven't checked the whois on the URL, so I'm not sure, but is it possible they are located in a different country?

And, just because something is the law doesn't mean people are going to follow it.

You can bet that a large percentage of the porn sites out there are not compliant with the title 18 2257 requirements.

The domain is regostered in Washington state.

[horney]

I can register an office in Washington state. From which I can register a domain with a Washington state address. So what does it prove?

Never, ever, rely upon WHOIS information for anything other than a place to start making enquiries. In practical terms, it is actually proof of nothing at all.

Domain registrars do not check who lives or works at any address they are given. They merely check that the address exists.

[TwinDevils]

Originally posted by horney
I can register an office in Washington state. From which I can register a domain with a Washington state address. So what does it prove?

Never, ever, rely upon WHOIS information for anything other than a place to start making enquiries. In practical terms, it is actually proof of nothing at all.

Domain registrars do not check who lives or works at any address they are given. They merely check that the address exists.

The domain is registered in the state Washington and the site is hosted on servers in the state of Washington.

I think it's fair to assume that this is a site operated in the U.S.

[Hammer]

If the owner does indeed live in the U.S. he's got big balls and obviously believes he's immune or doesn't believe that the threat is real. Not only are his balls big but he must polish them every night considering the name of the site.

[TwinDevils]

Originally posted by Hammer
If the owner does indeed live in the U.S. he's got big balls and obviously believes he's immune or doesn't believe that the threat is real. Not only are his balls big but he must polish them every night considering the name of the site.

I would imagine that hosting the site in the U.S. subjects it to 2257, regardless of where the owner lives. Yes?

[horney]

It doesn't matter where the site is hosted. If the owner books the site using a USA address and USA registered domain, but is outside the jurisdiction of the US authorities, all they can do is shut the site down. So he books another one elsewhere.

OK, so that's the down side. The authorities in regimes such as Burma, China and many just as nasty, are trying very hard to stifle freedom of internet use. I am very glad they are failing. Our own authorities in the UK are paying lip service to it, don't understand it and are basically cocking up civil liberties whilst allowing criminals to proceed unimpeded.

The USA are spending far too much on it with too little in return. Ffs, don't encourage them to fuck it up even further.

Which sort of tells you exactly how effective bullshit like 2257 statements are in the big bad real world.

In case you haven't worked it out, the law abiding will follow the rules and the criminals will either forge them or flaunt them. Now, discarding stupid innocents who have failed to tick the right boxes, how many genuine criminal abusers of the statutes have your American authorities actually caught? My guess won't be far wrong if I suggest about as many as our own incompetent shower, about a thimble full when there's a whole ocean of them out there.

[phuckbunny]

Looks just like any one of millions of TGPs run by US webmasters who aren't following 2257 to a t.

The content doesn't look any different either and the sites he's pushing are long established and familiar, legit ones like sapphic erotica.

Should he be paranoid? Depends.

Logically speaking, if the Feds start actively pursuing cracking down on the record keeping thing in the stature, they're going to hunt down people like Joe Francis. On the flipside, I got a jaywalking ticket in downtown LA from LAPD Keystone Kop while there was a guy smoking crack 5 feet away from me. I know in LA, the Kops' unwritten motto is 'stay out of danger, do as little work as possible, go after easy targets and go home.' I have a feeling that it's not the same case with the Feds but if it was then a lot more people in this biz would be paranoid.


As far as I know, setting up an offshore company and flying out to a dummy "board meeting" in the Cayman Islands or Gibraltar twice a year will not protect you from US prosecution if you're a US citizen breaking US laws.

As far as the criminals go, I agree with you, Horney 100% and I think your govt have a bigger problem than even the Yanks in terms of aiding and protecting full blown scum from Hoogstratten to Berezovsky and the entire Russian mob.

[phuckbunny]

BTW I don't think a disclaimer that says "we have no association" is any less valid than saying "all models are over 18, contact the....etc etc" if it's not YOU who is in possession of the papers as well. Neither will stand up in court, IMO.

[phuckbunny]

BTW, no one mentioned why Fleshbot chooses to ignore 2257 either in thread lauding that site.

http://www.cozycampus.com/theforum/s...threadid=28760

[Cozy Monica]

I agree that the site is really flaunting things by naming the domain the way that they have, and they really need a 2257 statement.

I think the reason you see a lot of this though (ignoring 2257 requirements) is because any person can jump onto the net and set up a website. They don't have to conform to building codes, sign a lease, get a bank loan, register a buisness name, or any of the other things normally associated with a business. And this means they can be entirely ignorant of how things SHOULD be run.

And the others just don't care.

They are probably betting that the odds of being inspected are kind of like the odds of being struck by lightening, and hoping they aren't one of the unlucky few.

[mynameisjim]

This got me thinking. There is a safe harbor law which protects ISPs and certain websites that have user uploaded content from being prosecuted for things their users do.

Would a TGP qualify? Users upload the galleries so I suppose an argument could me made they are similar to a video sharing site like youtube. I'm not saying I would be banking on this but just something to think about. Obviously it would all have to be argued in court.

Look at craigslist, they promote prostitution 24/7 in plain site.

[sunfunbill]

Well now, this thread just would not be complete without a response from your lil o Bilinda!!

I really, really think that a good 60% or more of the adult sites out there are made by newbie kids who don't even know anything about 2754,, uh 2234,, 6675 three oh nineeee yea, 2257??

I don't know much about it myself, despite the 20 or so threads that have been posted on this site. I'm just going to look at a few who I know what they are doing and copy them.



No, I'm just going to go with soft content, IMO that sells better anyway. But yet I'll still have something up.

As to the original question TwinDevils, you seem to really be pissed at the site and why they can get away with it, or how can it be legal.

It's not legal, ok? He is breaking the law. Soooo,,, what? Go online and in 5 minutes you can see KP, rape and all kinds of crap that should and is Illegal. Lots of sites, as has been said, are not compiling.

If it really pisses you off, report him to,,, uh,, the feds? I don't know. It's a case of a grey area that some cross and some don't.

Now, would I do it cause he is, which somehow I think your asking? No, maybe he will get shut down, maybe he will be thrown in jail. Maybe 50 like yourself will report him.

So, I would be safe than sorry and do it the way you should, or not do it at all. I know people that have stolen 10,000 bucks and got away, but that does not mean I will do it.

Now I gotta do the girls wash and make myself pretty!!

[phuckbunny]

Bill, what do you think about fleshbot who we talked about much this past week and other sites of similar stature throwing 2257 caution to the wind?

[sunfunbill]

Hi there phuckbunny! Hmmm, well, are they based in the USA? It does seem a bit fast and lose to be such a big, popular site and not have that if they are based in the US.

I myself would be getting that up there fast. But, you would think they know what they are doing, so maybe they know something we don't?? But then again, they show screen captures of videos, how the hell can they know who to put as record holder?

They also have some big lawyers I am sure, so maybe they just have more balls then fear!